Appropriate punishment: reformative or punitive?

Man-love over boy-sex? Semen better than Astroglide? Your mother's naked body more horrifying than a 747 full of infants exploding in mid-air and the debris raining down through razor sharp mesh wire? Discuss it here!
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Mojo
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Appropriate punishment: reformative or punitive?

Post by Mojo »

I read this article on AOL news (it's pretty long);

France Opens Pedophilia Trial, With 66 Defendants

ANGERS, France (March 3) - French authorities opened one of the nation's most horrific pedophilia trials Thursday, charging that nearly four dozen babies and children were raped, sexually abused and prostituted by their parents for a little cash, food, alcohol or even cigarettes

Sixty-six defendants, some facing up to life imprisonment, were brought into a blue-carpeted courtroom specially built in this western city to hold them all.

In French trials, defendants do not plead guilty or innocent at the start of proceedings. Court officials said about half of the accused had admitted involvement in the alleged crimes during questioning.

Investigators say 45 children - from 6 months to 14 years old - were raped or sexually abused from 1999 to 2002 by their parents or people close to them who paid money, food, cigarettes or liquor. A grandfather of some of the children allegedly filmed rapes and other abuse.

The defendants, aged from 27 to 73, mostly are from low-income households in the Saint-Leonard neighborhood of Angers, a town of 156,000 people some 165 miles southwest of Paris. Some were abused themselves as children. More than half are unemployed.

Defense lawyers plan to argue that government social workers, who dealt with many of the suspects, turned a blind eye to signs of abuse.

The case came to light in 2000, when a 16-year-old girl alleged she had been raped by her mother's boyfriend and his brother.

Three couples at the heart of the case lured their children and those of their friends, relatives and neighbors by saying they were going to "play doctor," the prosecution's 420-page legal filing charges. One girl was allegedly raped 45 times.

Three defendants face life imprisonment if convicted of raping minors under age 15 and of active participation in a prostitution ring. Thirty-six face up to 20 years imprisonment if convicted on similar charges.

Five defendants could be sentenced to 10 years in prison if found guilty of incestuous sexual abuse on children and 14 could face seven years if convicted of corrupting minors. The remaining eight are charge with failing to report the crimes and could be jailed for three years if convicted.

Some people who are thought to have worn masks while they raped children are feared to be at large. "The children speak of one tattooed woman who is not in the defendants' dock," Rouiller said.

"We think that affairs like Angers must have existed before. They were just kept hidden, as family secrets," he added.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press

So was wondering what you guys think is the best way to deal with these kinds of offenders? i'm all for castration in this case i think.
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Tenacious B
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Post by Tenacious B »

i've always been a fan of retributive punishment for offenders of crimes, with obvious differences in the actual harshness of the punishment in relation to the crime.

the term "two wrongs don't make a right" is just sophistry to me. the human mind, especially relatives of a victim, greatly benefits from the thought of retribution handed out.

that said, this is all dependent on a fair trial system, something this country sorely lacks (but which france, i assume, is far better with).

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Post by BadBoy »

castration was never a good punishment for rape or any other sort of sexual abuse giving them to buba to act as his bitch for 3 years may be a start there after allowing the abused parties to beat them to death with various instruments is a good way to go
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Post by MacDaddy »

I am also in the retributive camp. Pity that here the rapists go in to jail. Become Bubba's bitch. Then exit jail and spread AIDS.

I have no problem with summary execution.

I don't like criminals, and while I suppose I am a criminal myself in some respects, raping babies is only fun during D&D!




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Post by chemicallymark »

MacDaddy wrote:I am also in the retributive camp. Pity that here the rapists go in to jail. Become Bubba's bitch. Then exit jail and spread AIDS.

I have no problem with summary execution.

I don't like criminals, and while I suppose I am a criminal myself in some respects, raping babies is only fun during D&D!
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Mojo
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Post by Mojo »

.matt wrote:i've always been a fan of retributive punishment for offenders of crimes, with obvious differences in the actual harshness of the punishment in relation to the crime.

the term "two wrongs don't make a right" is just sophistry to me. the human mind, especially relatives of a victim (my italics -mojo), greatly benefits from the thought of retribution handed out.

that said, this is all dependent on a fair trial system, something this country sorely lacks (but which france, i assume, is far better with).
I agree with the need to provide some sense of closure to families of victims, whether it be by what they perceive to be appropriate punishment of offenders, or possibly monetary restitution (as is done in this country in some cases). However, in this case it is the family of the victims themselves that have been identified as the offenders.
Yes, retributive justice may satisfy the victims themselves, but surely not for very long. The effects of this type of abuse on children is well known, and therefore i feel it will take much more than retribution to deal with these crimes. This brings up another interesting point - how does one manage the victims?
Anyway, i don't think retribution in this case is sufficient. Is it really enough to lock up the offenders and leave them to rot? Is some kind of rehabilitation possible? and should an effort at least be made at rehabilitating offenders? In this case with some of the offenders being of advanced age, I doubt this approach would prove fruitfull, but there are those that are still young that will be out in 7-10yrs. How does one adjust their deviant intrapsychical needs and ensure no recidivism occurs?
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Post by BadBoy »

giving them to buba to act as his bitch for 3 years may be a start there after allowing the abused parties to beat them to death with various instruments is a good way to go
Don't mess in the affairs of dragons cos u r crunchy and taste good with mustard

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