reglious belief and IQ inversly proportional

Man-love over boy-sex? Semen better than Astroglide? Your mother's naked body more horrifying than a 747 full of infants exploding in mid-air and the debris raining down through razor sharp mesh wire? Discuss it here!
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Post by masterb »

yes matt , obviously christians should be perfect in every way or they must be labelled hypocrites...

in this regard, and i don't like it but it's inevitable, I will always make mistakes. I'm a human being, not a God. Only He is perfect.

So yes, well done matt, we are in that sense 'hypocritical'.

we all are, every single christian, fighting a battle everyday to be biblical.

we fail all the time unfortunately, but our God forgives us. It is not perfection that God seeks from His people, but the constant striving to be as biblical as we can.

thank you marco, i seriously couldn't have said it better.
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Post by Tenacious B »

and i think you put that very well neil, but that begs yet another question:

what makes you different from me? as a person who strives to be good, and good human being, what makes you think you will get some kind of reward and i won't?

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Post by BadBoy »

MacDaddy wrote: Reg is just this sweet guy who loves the cock.
but yours most of all :flirt:

but you are not feeding the troll and that makes me sad :(

but as usual you are correct (can't tell you haow much that irritates me)

lets say the troll has been fed and lock the thread :surrender:
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Post by Tenacious B »

goddammit and it was just getting started :(

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Post by Paelleon »

I'd also like to pat Marco on the back for that.

My biggest issue with fundamentalists are their hypocritical views, and statements; and the need to convert me to their faith.

Because of that I will never belittle or try and convert any faith away from that faith. Let the man believe. He is entitled to it, and has never tried to fish me to his faith. In fact, Neil is acting far more civilised than any one else.

Just because he finds the rational explanations flawed doesn't mean they are; and just because I don't believe in anything that doesn't have logical explanation and rational basis doesn't mean that a higher power doesn't exist.

Quite honestly, the only people who know for sure are dead.

Aww, Fuck it.

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Post by masterb »

i know bro that one absolutely killed me ...

and it is a great question.

the only answer i have is this: The Bible says the only difference is that to be a christian, you must accept that Jesus was the son of God.

That is the ONLY difference between us, and it sucks ass, but it is the difference between going to heaven and not according to my faith.

I'm not for one second calling you people bad people, you are great people, which big hearts and lots of love.

I am so so so not a better person than you matt, i really hope you don't think i feel that way.

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Post by BadBoy »

yeah but relligion is too personal and we just gonna piss buddies off unless all concernd want to continue

p.s. your last point was brilaint
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Post by masterb »

no don't lock the thread, i have a feeling that you people can learn some stuff from me and i you.

and maybe i'll lose some of my hypocrisy, and you'll lose some of your xenophobia.

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Post by BadBoy »

ok here is a Q

Does god make mistakes? change his mind? seems unlikley for a omnipient onmiscient entity

if so why do we have these fundimental changes from old to new testament ?

and why are we not stoning gays at the city gates? (apart from the fact we don<b>[I AM TOO STUPID TO USE AN APOSTROPHE]</b>t have city gates)
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Post by Ceek »

Ah man i missed it and don't have time to read through all the posts.

I think it is fine to say anything that you want about christians or anyone else on oddville regardless of whether we are or are not from a particular social group. I think that Neil shouldn't take it personally when people inslut his religion. A lot of people hate christians and a lot of bad things have been done in the name of the church.

I think the bible is bullshit but that's just my opinion. If you think it is right then continue believing it. However if you are going to react so vehemently everytime someone disses christianity then you are going to live a hard and sad life. Just let it go.
During the last six decades, Cliff Richard has charted many hit singles, and holds the record (along with Elvis Presley) as the only act to make the UK singles charts in all of its active decades (1950s–2000s). According to his website, he has sold 250 million records over the course of his career.

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Post by BadBoy »

more how could he not for see the balls up that would require the flood and the destruction of sodom and gamorah

if he is omnicient surley he knew eve would eat the fruit ? every other living thing was created with mated but man? what was he thinking?
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Post by BadBoy »

some bb's (bible bashers) say the earth is 10 000 years old WTF are dinosours?
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Post by masterb »

BadBoy wrote:ok here is a Q

Does god make mistakes? change his mind? seems unlikley for a omnipient onmiscient entity

if so why do we have these fundimental changes from old to new testament ?

and why are we not stoning gays at the city gates? (apart from the fact we don<b></b>t have city gates)


He is indeed, but we were created with free choice... which answers all your questions.

God's new covenant is not one of trying to force us into his ways, but rather one of forgiveness, and that people must find him.

Whereas the old covenant would talk about stonings etc, the new covenant talks about forgiveness.

Our freedom of choice is what led to the new covenant. God must of known that it is something that humanity would have to go through to reach this point.

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Post by MacDaddy »

I'm just not willing to believe that any ultimate being capable of creating the whole universe would be so small minded that he would lay the smackdown on you for not obeying a million contradictory and intensely disputed rules.

I live a good life, I am kind to people, I do my best in whatever I undertake.

I also have (lots of) sex outside marriage, I don't pray, and I don't alter my actions to suit the whims of an assumed ultimate overlord.

What if the Jews are right? They also have intense religious experiences?

What about the Hindus? Or the Muslims? Or the black people with ancestor worship?

Are all of them fucked because they don't accept Jesus?

If that's how God operates then I'm glad I'm not one of 'his people'. If there is a God, and it is my sincerest hope that there is, I am certain of only one thing: That ALL religions have it wrong. They are man-made rules to give form and expression to the inexpressible divine.

I will continue to live my life in a good way (on my own definition of good) because it pleases me. If God exists and rewards me for it in some misty afterlife well that's nice, but if he doesn't then that's also OK because I already got my reward.

And you know what, you guys are part of that reward. Knowing all of you and having these discussions on Oddville and seeing you guys and hanging out and getting stoned or drunk and even getting pissed off at you has all been tremendously rewarding. You guys have given me a better life. So thanks.

Hmmm... :hmm:

Ok no more deepness. I have to make a multi-level dungeon for D&D tonight!!!
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Post by masterb »

BadBoy wrote:some bb's (bible bashers) say the earth is 10 000 years old WTF are dinosours?
which is silly too. We all know that is a naive and broken approach to the way the world evolved.

No i think darwinian and currently theoretical science fits very nicely with the Bible.

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Post by masterb »

MacDaddy wrote:I'm just not willing to believe that any ultimate being capable of creating the whole universe would be so small minded that he would lay the smackdown on you for not obeying a million contradictory and intensely disputed rules.

I live a good life, I am kind to people, I do my best in whatever I undertake.

I also have (lots of) sex outside marriage, I don't pray, and I don't alter my actions to suit the whims of an assumed ultimate overlord.

What if the Jews are right? They also have intense religious experiences?

What about the Hindus? Or the Muslims? Or the black people with ancestor worship?

Are all of them fucked because they don't accept Jesus?

If that's how God operates then I'm glad I'm not one of 'his people'. If there is a God, and it is my sincerest hope that there is, I am certain of only one thing: That ALL religions have it wrong. They are man-made rules to give form and expression to the inexpressible divine.

I will continue to live my life in a good way (on my own definition of good) because it pleases me. If God exists and rewards me for it in some misty afterlife well that's nice, but if he doesn't then that's also OK because I already got my reward.

And you know what, you guys are part of that reward. Knowing all of you and having these discussions on Oddville and seeing you guys and hanging out and getting stoned or drunk and even getting pissed off at you has all been tremendously rewarding. You guys have given me a better life. So thanks.

Hmmm... :hmm:

Ok no more deepness. I have to make a multi-level dungeon for D&D tonight!!!
I believe that the Jews etc believe in the same God, yet refuse to accept the new covenant, and yes sorry to say but that isn't good enough in God's eyes.

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Post by masterb »

God cannot control our freedom of choice, this is in essence what the Bible means by 'in his image'.

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Post by BadBoy »

that is the conundrum if god all powerfull he must be able to see the future so why not just put the correct situatin into place first off? unless he is not all powerfull
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Post by BadBoy »

or he has no free will? which is why he made us ? but that implies he made a decision which implies free will
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Post by Ceek »

I don't think you want to go down this road neil. It is like when marco and i argue about capitalism. There can be no winner.
During the last six decades, Cliff Richard has charted many hit singles, and holds the record (along with Elvis Presley) as the only act to make the UK singles charts in all of its active decades (1950s–2000s). According to his website, he has sold 250 million records over the course of his career.

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Post by BadBoy »

if god made the univerese who made god ( here we get to where its useless to sum a infinite series of numbers)

if god just exsisted why can<b>[I AM TOO STUPID TO USE AN APOSTROPHE]</b>t the universe just exsist?



man i got so many of these i can go on for weeks.

but now i have to work so i can pay for a new TAG
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Post by BadBoy »

Ceek wrote:I don't think you want to go down this road neil. It is like when marco and i argue about capitalism. There can be no winner.
no you are wrong marco (and i) are right hence u loose
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Post by masterb »

who's to say he didn't bro?

if we were given freedom of choice, which the bible says we were, and that God created us to be that way, then it makes sense to me that in order to accept our current covenant with Him we would need to go through similar events to what we did.

The freedom of choice vs God's Power is a tricky one and hear everything you say ... and it is nothing new to debate how God went about things.

According to what I understand to be our purpose, according to the Bible, it makes complete sense that in order to accept a new covenant we would need to go through what happened previously.

the Bible says that the only dominion for which God has no absolute control is the our freedom of choice, and all the things that have happened to humanity so far in our relationship with him are because of that!

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Post by MacDaddy »

masterb wrote:I believe that the Jews etc believe in the same God, yet refuse to accept the new covenant, and yes sorry to say but that isn't good enough in God's eyes.
How do you know this? Does the Bible tell you? If so then it is an incredibly flawed source. The Bible was written thousands of years ago, in several diferent ancient languages.

It has been translated and re-translated thousands of times, and even the most basic knowledge of translation will tell you that this means it cannot be identical to the original text.

There are also any number of parts of the Bible that Christians don't believe. You already said you don't believe the Genesis thing in it's entirety since it is clearly allegorical.

Who is to say that "accepting Jesus" isn't an allegory for living your life in a way consistent with his teachings?

Again, if that is the rule that God enforces, no matter how unreasonable and bigoted, then I am exceedingly glad not to be part of his little club.

I heap scorn on such pathetic dogma.
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Post by MacDaddy »

BadBoy wrote:
Ceek wrote:I don't think you want to go down this road neil. It is like when marco and i argue about capitalism. There can be no winner.
no you are wrong marco (and i) are right hence u loose
Yep. Reg and I are right on this one.

And I have noticed that Chris is getting a bit loose. You should do some streching or calisthenics or something... you're not as tight as a 12 year old any longer...
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Post by masterb »

MacDaddy wrote:
masterb wrote:I believe that the Jews etc believe in the same God, yet refuse to accept the new covenant, and yes sorry to say but that isn't good enough in God's eyes.
How do you know this? Does the Bible tell you? If so then it is an incredibly flawed source. The Bible was written thousands of years ago, in several diferent ancient languages.

It has been translated and re-translated thousands of times, and even the most basic knowledge of translation will tell you that this means it cannot be identical to the original text.

There are also any number of parts of the Bible that Christians don't believe. You already said you don't believe the Genesis thing in it's entirety since it is clearly allegorical.

Who is to say that "accepting Jesus" isn't an allegory for living your life in a way consistent with his teachings?

Again, if that is the rule that God enforces, no matter how unreasonable and bigoted, then I am exceedingly glad not to be part of his little club.

I heap scorn on such pathetic dogma.
Well the bible is written in allegory or more accurately parable... you have to find your own answers.

i try my best to bear all these things in mind when i read the bible.

Yes i do believe that the bible was given to us by God.

The very nature of being a christian is to try and live a christ like life. so yes you state the obvious in that regard, whether allegory or parable or not.

Don't forget also that interpretive reading is very subjective. hermonoitics(?) and all that sort of stuff. i agree that translation and subjectivity can be very harmful to people curious about the bible. It seems that it clearly is with all you guys :)

The bible is no less sketchy than, carbon dating, let's say. You can either choose to believe it or not.

Every single argument you guys are presenting is completely valid and i see every side of your coin. haha great english.

i wrestle with these questions everyday.

I still can't explain how i prayed day in and day out for God to help me with my finances, and I now somehow have the biggest positive account balance i've ever had, and own an xbox.

Is it coincidence? I doubt that because my prayers are always answered. It's crazy.

And I can't explain that!
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Post by Ceek »

Is there any type of surgery that i can have to make me toit like a 9 year old?
During the last six decades, Cliff Richard has charted many hit singles, and holds the record (along with Elvis Presley) as the only act to make the UK singles charts in all of its active decades (1950s–2000s). According to his website, he has sold 250 million records over the course of his career.

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Post by Tenacious B »

i'm just butting in to say that this thread got real good real quick.

love to you all.
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Post by masterb »

And Marco, it doesn't seem fair at all does it! put that way our God seems like a very vindictive entity.

You must understand... that by my choice to take a giant leap of faith, God has revealed himself to me in supernatural ways that i cannot explain.

I really wish I could, but we are all highly intelligent people and with that comes a great deal of scepticism towards things that cannot be proven.

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Post by MacDaddy »

masterb wrote:The bible is no less sketchy than, carbon dating, let's say. You can either choose to believe it or not.
Except for the fact that carbon dating produces results that are verifiable and reproducible aain and again, unlike the Bible which makes assertions that cannot feasibly be proven in any way.

So they are actually quite different.
masterb wrote:I still can't explain how i prayed day in and day out for God to help me with my finances, and I now somehow have the biggest positive account balance i've ever had, and own an xbox.
I can't explain how countless millions of equally devout people pray day in and day out for any number of things and yet they die in miserable poverty, riddled with AIDS, still bleating out their amens with their dying breaths.

I won't post any more in this thread because I genuinely don't like religion. I feel to the very core of my being that the answers it offers are false. Almost every advance that has improved the lot of man has been opposed by religion, and I feel that it is a generally destructive force within society.

Again, I don't mind what you believe. I know you Neil and you're a smart guy, and religion hasn't turned you into an idiot. I don't share your views on this issue, however, and I disagree with many of them quite strongly.
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