Fine for hitting a child?

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Rebel Pope
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Fine for hitting a child?

Post by Rebel Pope » October 12, 2007, 2:26 pm

Cape Town - R300 for a clip on the ear.

That's what parents will have to cough up if they're prosecuted under the provisions for corporal punishment in the proposed Children's Act and if they are given the option of a fine.

The National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) on Tuesday told the parliamentary Social Welfare Services portfolio committee that unless clause 139 of the Children's Act was changed, "any minor smack on the buttocks or rap over the knuckles" would be illegal and punishable by law.

"It means that the NPA would be obliged to subject each and every complaint filed by children against their parents to the legal process," said Advocate Rodney de Kock, the Director of Public Prosecutions in the Western Cape.

"A decision on whether sufficient pain has been inflicted (for the complaint to qualify) does not lie with the NPA. The act will stipulate that each smack or clip is an offence and should be treated as such."

The new law stipulates that absolutely no form of corporal punishment is legal and a child may not be punished in a way that is "cruel, inhuman or degrading".

The act also negates the defence of physical punishment as "a reasonable form of discipline" as contained in the existing Child Care Act.

Cheryllyn Dudley of the ACDP asked if it was not possible to refer in the legislation to "reasonable forms of corporal punishment".

Committee chairperson Advocate Mike Masutha of the ANC informed her that the law made provision for training in alternative disciplinary methods.

Both Dudley and Hilda Weber of the DA wanted to know precisely what options were available to a hiding and disciplining that was seen as "degrading".

"The Education Department can provide that answer," Masutha said.



What do you think? Is this humane or is it the end of civilisation as we know it?
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Drac
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Re: Fine for hitting a child?

Post by Drac » October 15, 2007, 6:43 am

Oh me, oh my. Let me takea few deep breaths before I launch into my opinion of this...


The winning factor in this is that the government want to tell parents what to dow ith their children. That is, they want to stop any form of discipline in schools and at home that involves a smack. That is the biggest load of BULLSHIT I have ever heard in my life. Take a look at the discipline in schools to give you an idea of what this is causing. Consider, most of us on this forum grew up with the good old "Jacks" system. You fucked up, you were sent to the headmaster and he would give you 2 or 3 or 4 depending on the offense. Fuck, you learnt the first time that it hurt like a bitch so you tried not to get more in your career at school. Now, fuck-wad kids bring knives and shit to school to stab each other and what do the schools do? Fuck-all!!

The same applies to this violence that is bred in school. In my day, when 2 guys were not fond of each other they would get together on the field and slug it out. The first guy to go down was the loser. The winner would then say something appropriate like "I told you not to fuck with my girl" or "Don't try that again fucker" and he would walk away. Now, they beat each other to death, using the opponents head to crack toilet bowls and the like. Why? Because the fuckers know that nothing will happen to them. They have no idea what they are doing is wrong because there are no fucking consequences for them.

If by some miracle I do get married and sire children, the government mustn't come to me and say "Oh, you can't hit your child" because the chances are pretty good that the social worker will end up in hospital or in a coffin. What the fuck are you supposed to do? Some fuckers say that we need to talk to the fucking kids. So what? "Son, you have a problem. Why don't you tell me what is bothering you so we can talk through this problem and help you". Bull-fucking-shit. The mother-fucker will laugh at your sorry ass and say to himself "what a bunch of fucking losers". I say if the fucker does something, you give him a good fucking hiding and at least that way the bastard will learn that it hurts like a bitch when he fucks up. Son of a fuck!!! This government is the fucking crappest mother-fucking cunt-fuck bastard for thinking up this pathetic plan. This country needs corporal punishment back. It will empty the jails and it will make violent criminals think twice before commiting a violent act against innocent people.

Those though, are simply my thoughts and opinions.

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Re: Fine for hitting a child?

Post by Paelleon » October 15, 2007, 11:37 am

Oh. My. God. Fred feels very very strongly about this ...

I don't have that much hatred towards anyone in my body, so my thoughts are somewhat more quietly put below.

I am not a huge fan of corporal punishment in schools. Abuse was, and probably still is, a problem. I'm not suggesting that a good hiding is not deserved by some, but in a few cases at school, it was far more than just a hiding. We're talking serious abuse. The same is true in the home. There are still cases of serious abuse by some parents.

However, the wholesale banning of ALL corporal punishment is a drastic and serious overreaction to the crisis. The government had to make a call to control the spiralling abuse of children, and through pressure from the lobbying rights activists have made a move that errs on the side of caution. There are other ways to parent that do not require beating the kid, but they require a degree of parental involvement that is alien to the majority of this generation, and indeed difficult in two income families.

I think the initiative, while noble, is badly thought out, and will produce a few generations of unruly, undisciplined, and dangerous people. I think it will fail.
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Re: Fine for hitting a child?

Post by Rebel Pope » October 17, 2007, 12:20 pm

Persoanlly i feel the policy is a non-starter. For one thing how do they plan to police it? Will our courts become blocked up with cases wherein children claimed their mom hit them for swearing and mom says she doesn't? The creation of these frivolous laws has an impact on more than just the children and parents. While police are now being forced to spend time writing up dockets and opening cases against parents who gave their children a smack for screaming non-stop in the cinema other criminals are getting the opportunity to go about their daily business. With an already over stretched police force we can not impose laws that could waste their time. Much like smoking in publci is not enforced this will not be too, but it will look good on our human rights record. Personally I will smack my kid, pay my fine, then smack him again for squealing.
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Re: Fine for hitting a child?

Post by Drac » October 17, 2007, 6:27 pm

I must agree with your there Warren. As you so beautifully pointed out, the police are over-stretched and can hardly do anything about the violent crimes. Not to mention that most of the police is in some way involved in said crime.

What needs to be done is a shift of focus onto the really harsh crimes, sort them out and when you can boast you have a crime rate of less than 5%, go ahead and make stupid laws banning the smaking of snot-nosed brats.

I also agree whole-heartedly that a severe beating for squealling is in order once the first fine is paid. Personally, I don't see how this can be controlled but as I am not an Azanian, I am hardly in a position to debate the matter...

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