The need of a spinner

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Paelleon
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The need of a spinner

Post by Paelleon » May 4, 2007, 3:22 pm

Robin Petersen is bitching and moaning. Blah blah blah.

But it raises the question on his selection in the first place. Who should we have selected instead?

As everyone here knows I'm a Thandi Tshabalala fan, and the stats back me up. Just comparing the List A (to remove the "international superstars taking Petersen apart" part of the equation)

TT: 47 wickets from 41 Matches at 27.4 runs apiece, and striking every 35.4 balls
RP: 103 wickets from 113 Matches at 31.7 runs apiece, and striking every 42.8 balls

That said, Robin does have a FAR superior batting record with an average of 26.6 vs Thandi's 4.9 ...

So, two parts to the question: 1. Which spinner is the way forward for SA Cricket? (Thandi, Robin, Paul Harris, anyone else?)
2. Is there a need for a batting spinner, or will the ability to turn the ball square be sufficient?
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Post by The Third Man » May 4, 2007, 3:43 pm

I don't see the need for a 'batting spinner'. South Africa currently bat down to 8 or 9 (in the ODI side, when Hall and Kemp are in) and it's not done them much good. I think the ICC WC has shown that when SA decide to collapse, an extra part-time batter isn't likely to arrest it.

I think the best spinner should be picked. There's no sense picking a mediocre spinner just because he's a mediocre part time batsman as well.
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Post by tetrahc » May 4, 2007, 11:26 pm

I agree, if we can get our top order to consistently bat the way we know they're able to, then we certainly don't need to select bowlers based on their batting abilities. On the other hand, if the top order collapses, then having a bowler that can sort of bat doesn't help much -- especially if that results in not having the variety and strength in our bowling to put the opposition under pressure as well.

With the batsmen we have, I'm sure we can afford to pick bowlers purely on their bowling ability.

I'm sure that Tshabalala would be a better choice than Petersen, but I'm not sure that the "international superstars" wouldn't take him apart as well. What we need to do is find a real world class spinner -- you can't tell me that in a population of 44 million we don't have an undiscovered Murali or Warne somewhere. What we need to do is identify that talent and develop it.
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Post by Mitch » May 7, 2007, 9:43 am

One of the issues is we find that talent and develop it into something orthodox, eliminating all talent and creating a clone of what we have already.

I blame clive rice and his damnable academy...
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Post by Paelleon » May 7, 2007, 10:13 am

All of this is really interesting. Out of the exisiting players, who would anyone recommend as a quality spinner? Who do you like the look of? That's what I was really asking ...

Glad that everyone agrees that batting isn't as important - ecspecially because we bat so low anyways.

But is there a spinner, apart from Petersen, Thandi and Boje, who really makes you sit up and take notice? Is the call to only develop Harris as a test spinner the correct one?
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Post by Ceek » May 7, 2007, 11:07 am

I say Paul Adams or .Matt should be the first choice national spinner.
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Post by Tenacious B » May 7, 2007, 3:38 pm

if only this arthritis hadn't destroyed my underarm action :(

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Post by Rebel Pope » May 7, 2007, 6:06 pm

What happened to Henderson? I heard he was cleared? Is that true or is it just my crack addled brain telling me what i want to hear?
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Post by Paelleon » May 8, 2007, 9:28 am

Hendersen? Cleared of what?

You're not thinking of Johann Botha are you?
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Post by Rebel Pope » May 8, 2007, 11:25 am

Ur..yes, yes i am.....who the hell is henderson?
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Post by McStew » May 8, 2007, 11:46 am

hehehehe.
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Post by The Third Man » May 9, 2007, 2:53 pm

Bring back Clive Eksteen. He filled Mitch's requirement for unorthodoxy by being a "spinner" but never, ever turning the ball, at all, in any direction.

Almost of makes you glad to have the likes of Tshabala and Petersen. almost
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Post by Paelleon » May 9, 2007, 3:07 pm

Perhaps I should point out that Anil Kumble hardly ever turns the ball, but he has so many subtle variations of pace and bounce that he is immensly effective. That said, Murali turns the ball square and he has the best figures of all ... And Shane gave the damn thing a bit of a rip as well. I remember his ball to dismiss Chanderpaul ... it pitched almost on the wide mark outside his off stump, and spun back to take middle - at 80+ kph.

How do you play that?
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Post by Mitch » May 9, 2007, 3:13 pm

Backfoot heave over cow corner.

Like I play every other ball.
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Post by Rebel Pope » May 9, 2007, 3:35 pm

Did you say Shane gave the ball a bit of a rip?....were you a BBC radio commentator during the 50's in another life?
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Post by Paelleon » May 9, 2007, 4:21 pm

No I wasn't a BBC Radio Commentator. I just like using cheesy cricketing phrases. I even work in the use of my favourites during everyday life. Like sometimes, during sex, I yell out "right off the meat". And when walking around shopping malls I grab hold of passing stangers and say "that fairly raced away to the fence."
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Post by The Third Man » May 9, 2007, 5:58 pm

I often repeat (and apply) the adage: "If you're going to flash, flash hard"
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Post by Stiff Cliff » May 9, 2007, 7:16 pm

i flash hard, if ya know what i mean ;)
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Post by Rebel Pope » May 10, 2007, 9:34 am

Did Cliff just miss the fact that Ago was making that exact same joke? :worried:
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Post by no noodles » May 10, 2007, 9:49 am

I believe Cricket SA started a "Spinners Coaching Clinic" after the squad came back from the Carribean.

I saw this on Extra Cover the other night (i must add that Gerald de Kock is a right prat and needs a kick in the balls!), anyhoo, that's besides the point.
A guy suggested that during our domestic season a spinner in each team should bowl at least 20 overs. it could be a good idea, especially as it gives spinners some time in the middle. it also allows our batsmen to start learning how to play spin.
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Post by Tenacious B » May 10, 2007, 12:20 pm

i now respect alex far more, now that i understand that his cricket vocabulary is a humorous affectation rather than an anachronism. also, his post made me laugh.

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Post by Stiff Cliff » May 10, 2007, 9:40 pm

who is Ago?
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Post by Tenacious B » May 11, 2007, 7:58 am

the guy who made the exact same joke as you dumbass

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